I'm happy to see them really committing to this. I didn't think I would be all that interested, but I will sure give it a go. Personally I wouldn't mind quality of life improvements and most of my friend don't really care for a 100% authentic vanilla experience but they want the old zones and world, a game world pre-Cataclysm but have no requirement for it being "authentic" to World of Warcraft Patch 1.12.2.
The leveling guides on my site are essentially speed leveling guides.  My leveling guides are the same guides I use myself to speedrun to 60 on new servers to get 60 server first.  I list many occasions where I tell the player to "die on purpose" to go faster.  I tell the player to skip certain quests, because some quests are just not worth the time/XP.  I list tricks and shortcuts to go faster so you can reach level 60 much quicker.  I am still constantly going through them over and over again perfecting the guides to make them faster and easier to follow.  For the most part, the guide can be followed without the need from other player's help, as the whole guide was made from a solo run anyways.  Although I do list quests that can optionally be done if you have a group.
Step-by-step class guides are on the way!  The 1-12 Mulgore Guide is the first guide to get all the individual class steps.  At the top of the guide, simply select which class you are playing and the page will dynamically update all the steps in the guide for that class (both text and images).  The rest of the guides will be slowly updated overtime to include all the class steps, but you can see how it's going to work with the 1-12 Mulgore.  I want to thank crazyK and his Placeholderguild for helping me out with the individual class content.  They are allowing me to get the 1-60 Alliance guide done while also getting all the class steps done at the same time, so everything can be ready for Classic launch (hopefully).
When you decide to Buy World of Warcraft Classic Gold, the main factors you will consider are price, trust and speed. mmoko has many years of experience in the field of game goods sales, providing excellent pre-sales and after-sales services for more than 50,000 customers. Our customer service staff and game traders are online 24 hours a day. If you have any problems, please feel free to contact us. Our goal is to do our best to meet the needs of our customers.
The leveling guides on my site are essentially speed leveling guides.  My leveling guides are the same guides I use myself to speedrun to 60 on new servers to get 60 server first.  I list many occasions where I tell the player to "die on purpose" to go faster.  I tell the player to skip certain quests, because some quests are just not worth the time/XP.  I list tricks and shortcuts to go faster so you can reach level 60 much quicker.  I am still constantly going through them over and over again perfecting the guides to make them faster and easier to follow.  For the most part, the guide can be followed without the need from other player's help, as the whole guide was made from a solo run anyways.  Although I do list quests that can optionally be done if you have a group.
I hate to be the one to say this, but let’s face it: we’re not little kids any more. Even for those of us who played Vanilla when they were well into their adult years will have gotten 14 years older, 14 years wiser, and up to 14 years more experienced with video games. What does that mean for Classic WoW? Well for starters, the grand majority of people who are interested in Classic will now have full time jobs. Some might have families and kids they didn’t have before. Basically, WoW Classic won’t be a big of a chunk in people’s lives as it was back then. Considering how much time you will really need to put into Classic WoW to enjoy everything it has to offer, that might be an issue. Stringing together 40-odd people to storm Blackwing Lair might be significantly more difficult now than it was back then. However, due to the issues I talked about in the paragraph above, it might not need to be the long, arduous hours that many people put into Vanilla raiding. With the right preparation and knowledge, raids in Classic will most likely take considerably less time to complete than they did in Vanilla, which will hopefully counteract the fact that the majority of players will have less overall time and fewer long chunks of time to play. 6. Conclusion In essence, the game itself might not be changing from Vanilla to Classic WoW, but the knowledge and mindset of the players of the game will considerably change the way the game feels. Everyone probably figures that there won’t be that same sense of wonder that Vanilla WoW brought so long ago, and that’s true. Nostalgia can only carry Classic WoW so far. Thankfully, I believe that there is some truly solid game design inVanilla WoW, and the fact that Blizzard have doubled down on creating a verbatim experience for Classic WoW is something that people have been adamant about since the day they announced its release. Only time will tell if ClassicWoW truly is the thing people have been wanting, or whether the new CEO ofBlizzard Jay Allen Brack was right – we thought we wanted it, but we didn’t.

Nov 5 Yellow names I got killed by an undead character with a yellow name. I know some npcs are green and players on your side are blue. Is this an enemy player or an npc? I thought the undead and blood elves were on the same side but I think it might have been a player because he/she jumped over and over again on my corpse after I was dead. I'm really confused by this.Lithelilara12 Nov 5
Nov 13 What are the differences between versions? I just have a trial at the moment but i'm confused on what each version offers. Normal Sub : $15 a month Battle for Azeroth: $50 (needs subscription) Complete Colelction: $60 As far as i knew if you had a subscription to the game you get all of the content minus the latest expansion. So let me see if this is right. If i were to get the complete collection i would get one month at a $5 discount and the newest expansion OR Just pay $15 For the game and all expansions EXCEPT BFA?Buresh2 Nov 13
"To fill our pool of beta and stress test participants, we’ll be choosing dedicated players who meet select criteria from both the WoW Classic beta opt-in and the standard Warcraft beta opt-in. Participants will also need to have an active subscription or active game time on their Battle.net Account. While opting-in to the beta is the primary way to make sure you’re in the running to join the test it doesn’t guarantee an invitation to the closed beta test. We may also consider additional factors such as how long a player has been subscribed to the game so that we have the right mix of players to ensure great feedback toward making WoW Classic the very best experience for the community."
Nov 5 Demon Hunter Low Dps So i finished the starting zone for demon hunter and i found out im not doing any dps what so ever. Everyone tells me that thier doing something towards 14k after leaving the starting zone. But the max im ever gotten with any move is 300. Im level 100 with the gear what im supposed to leave with and for some reason im doing significantly lower dps than the usual player. Any help?Zexguru3 Nov 5
Nov 6 Good kind server to join I am looking for a good server with kind people to join. I am thinking of 1 of the new player servers or moonguard maybe ? I don't like trolls or toxicty and i don't like guilds trying to get me to raid and then get mad when we wipe 4 or 5 times. I also hope for a clean trade chat as well as fresh minds of players who are not brainwashed by the elitist attitude. Any one know of any good servers ? I been playing wow for 14 years on and off but started a new account. It's getting harder to find good people on the internet in mobile games and online PC games. Any help is appreciated thanks.Promonk4 Nov 6
Jul 4 BEWARE OF KEYLOGGERS! Don't follow that link! Version 2.0 added updates, new information, and cleaned up the format. Transferred from the Old Welcome to WoW forum. -Tera/Baloo I figured that a thread alerting new forum goers of our incessant keylogger issues right off the bat would be best suited in the Welcome/Beginners forum....so here goes... What is a Keylogger? How does it work? and why do I care? The World of Warcraft forums are a good place to come if you need information about your class, spec, profession or just have questions about the game in general. Unfortunately, a long with the good information that can be found here, there are also "people" who post links to websites that may imitate a legitimate WoW related website, but actually have a hidden program that gets installed on your computer in the background, without your knowledge. These small programs or scripts are used to record any keystrokes that you make on the keyboard, and secretly send those recorded keystrokes to a person who will then use that information to gain illegal access to your WoW account, bank account, or any other sensitive information. People who have their accounts "hacked" in this manner, will find that when they log on to their characters they have been stripped of any and all gear, crafting materials, Bank contents liquidated, and all of their gold gone. The violated account will then be used to re-post more links to keylogger websites on the official WoW forums in an effort to perpetuate the problem. Eventually the account will be left with nothing more than naked toons, and in some cases the characters are deleted as well once the account has been banned from posting in the forums by the Blizzard Moderators. These hidden programs or scripts can be embedded, actually hidden inside the data of other types of files such as Pictures, movies, flash objects or malicious web pages. How do I know if a link is a Keylogger or not? Well, after you have seen a few of them, you start to notice a few different things that they all seem to have in common. First, most of the time keyloggers are some random topic or a link to some picture or web page that has NOTHING to do with WoW or the topic in which the link is posted. These links are usually accompanied by some random one line comment that makes little or no sense. Also most of the time these links are Chinese specific domains, such as: somedomain dot "cn". An example might look like: > "It's too good to be true!" (followed by a link to a picture) > "Naked woman caught by satellite!" (followed by a link to a picture or video, and a statement such as:"Don't be so relaxed while you are taking the sun naked in the garden of your house... Big brother could be watching you!!!)" > "NERF INC!" (followed by a link to a picture) > "Just Beautiful! (followed by a link to a picture) >"Huge Alliance raid on Halaa (w/ pics)" (with several links to pictures)** (See note below) >"Shapeshifting proposals (Again, with pics)" (with several links to pictures)** >"Hey Kalgan, we're fine!" (With links to several .php documents, Kalgan is/was a WoW Developer) >"#%!#!!ex Toy" (Links to videos embedded in PHP scripts, with a story about a "neglected" girlfriend) Also, some examples of websites that seem to be posted a bunch "look" like they are WOW related websites, but upon closer inspection they are actually not legit: -warldofwarcraft -worldofworceaft - mmosgame - warcraftmoviies (note the double "ii" in movies) - warcraftm0vies (note the Zero in place of an "o") ** "warcraftmovies" IS a legitimate website ** **Note** It seems that whoever is posting the Key Loggers has gotten a bit less lazy and actually put some scheme together that looks like a legit post. These posts are usually about some "proposal/suggestion or bug fix (note:these issues should only be reported in the Suggestions or Bug Reports forums, NOT in the Welcome/Beginners forum, so that's your first clue.)" or of a raid on a major city. Most recently is a raid on Halaa (the PVP objective in Nagrand, Outland), with several links to pictures of their "event or evidence". These links are hostile and will infect your system. If someone is legitimately posting up pictures of a raid, they will be active on the forums and will usually be willing to speak with you about the link in question, whereas a keylogger almost certainly won't respond.Baloo129 Jul 4
To get Blacksmithing to level 300 is much effort. It is not that thing to make fast gold. There is always a lack of Blacksmiths though. Enchanters need rods of all kinds, melee classes look for Sharpening Stones and Weightstones with Counterweights, others buy Iron Spurs. Once you have learnt rare and epic recipes, people will always use your service to craft items.
Because the thing is, that sentence applies to both sides and it drives me crazy. Most comments about either Classic or Battle for Azeroth end up in mud-slinging matches for no real reason other then one side is being negative about the other side's favorite version of WoW. And the funny thing is, there are way, WAY more commonalities than differences in there, after you remove the ego of "my WoW is/was better yours sucks". In the end, no matter what anyone says, they are talking and arguing and fighting about it because they care about WoW.
Some even more advanced gold makers might also attempt to monopolize the market. It’s fairly easy if you have quite a bit of gold – just buy out every single item on which you want to have a monopoly on and then reintroduce it to the auction house with your new (and higher) price. However, it’s worth mentioning that monopolization tactic is risky business practice. But where’s high risk – there’s high profit.
The fact that Cookie's Tenderizer from the Deadmines had +3 instead of +2 strength. The fact that the Stormwind south bank had one instead of two mailboxes. The fact that Jaina's Proudmore's name was "Jaina Proudmore" instead of "Jaina Proudless." Stuff like this isn't what mattered. It was arbitrary. If Cookie had dropped a shield instead of a mace and Jaina had been named Susan, nobody would have cared. It wasn't specific details like these that caused us to enjoy the game.
Nov 11 New players welcome discord all new players and old players are welcome to join my server, we have been playing for awhile we can assist you with ur questions! 6300 30 posts 1 sec ago https://discord.gg/CNU53ju basicly made it so people can talk/make friends while playing any game, has 50+ people in the server, most people are on moonguard playing wow. this is a friendly server, we dont allow bullying! We prefer everyone to put eachother up instead of down. We have a suggestion box! and a music bot :) i am trying to get more people into the server so we can have events like stand up comedy. custom emojis available you just gotta send them to admin (Me) also looking for server mods to manage the server/improve it when im not around.Tenzo0 Nov 11
Since WoW Classic server has been announced at Blizzcon 2017, there is not much info about the server revealed. It is known that the upcoming expansion Battle for Azeroth pre-order has been available at blizzard shop, and the system requirements of Mac and Windows has been unveiled Recently, Forbes has an interview with J. Allen Brack and Jeremy Feasel about the project and some of the vision that developers have.
You are right here. The Rematch string is part of the Info box, and as such it should be parsed correctly. (The string that contains the correct and breed/damage-specific min health requirements). This should be enough, but, I think there are also folks that aren’t using Rematch. They also should know of the type-specific min health requirements. Unfortunatly the default forms of the page don’t offer any detailed entries for the min health. They only offer one entry (for all damage types), and I always put the worst-case min health there (for pets that are weak against the expected damage type)
Plenty of gameplay things have changed -- more on that in a minute -- but one thing almost immediately transformed the game for me. I was killing my fourth Kobold Vermin (sorry guys, I'm taking those candles) by auto-attacking it and waiting impatiently for my lone ability to light up, when it struck me: This was going to be slow. Really, really slow. And, after another minute, I realized that was okay.
Most people come here not to read walls of text, they look for the better-rated strategies that match their pet collections, copy&paste stuff they need to import into their addons and only come back if something goes horribly wrong and then mostly to find help in other peoples' comments who also struggled or to find a different team/strategy: I don't think many people wanna read about stuff that already happened to them, they mostly want to see solutions and it's the best way to have them in a well-optimized strategy&team already.

As you level, you will buy new ranks of spells. If you splurge out on an item upgrade, you will not have enough gold readily available to upgrade to the latest ranks of spells: placing you behind. Moreover, you can buy gear upgrades from the Auction House (AH) or vendors. Furthermore, you may have large investments that need to be paid for professors. You will need to purchase reagents and items such as leather, bolts of cloth, alchemy supplies – unless you have a charitable friend or another high-level alt.


If the end game feels miles away, and min-maxing is difficult because frankly, you're gonna take what you get and like it, then the focus of the game changes completely. Suddenly it's about the experience of leveling again, and hanging out with friends, and chatting with people in Goldshire (well, for purely innocent reasons anyway -- the Moon Guard server's Goldshire crew still does plenty of chatting).
When it comes to levelling the Priest Class from 1-60 fast, XP grinding locations is only half the battle. You will need to make sure your weapon does enough DPS so that you can clear these mobs fast enough, it should also be noted that monster should be around your level to make sure to gain the 100% XP Reward. The Level your character should be before you start that specific location will be indicated to left in a Blue Color for Alliance [Lvl 35-39] and the Orange Color for Horde [Lvl 35-39]. The Mobs you are looking for in that specific area names are Bolded [Mob Name].
The fact that Cookie's Tenderizer from the Deadmines had +3 instead of +2 strength. The fact that the Stormwind south bank had one instead of two mailboxes. The fact that Jaina's Proudmore's name was "Jaina Proudmore" instead of "Jaina Proudless." Stuff like this isn't what mattered. It was arbitrary. If Cookie had dropped a shield instead of a mace and Jaina had been named Susan, nobody would have cared. It wasn't specific details like these that caused us to enjoy the game. 

I'm happy to see them really committing to this. I didn't think I would be all that interested, but I will sure give it a go. Personally I wouldn't mind quality of life improvements and most of my friend don't really care for a 100% authentic vanilla experience but they want the old zones and world, a game world pre-Cataclysm but have no requirement for it being "authentic" to World of Warcraft Patch 1.12.2.
This is the most advanced tip that will only suit the smart players – those willing to spend some time in the auction house. In order to start with the speculations, you’ll need some initial funds and some basic knowledge about the prices on your server, so this tip might not be suitable for many. Back in the day, in order to sell stuff quickly, people used to sell various stuff cheaper than the average price standard on the market and your job is to find those deals and quickly buy them out before anyone else does. This is where the real gold making comes from!

Since WoW Classic server has been announced at Blizzcon 2017, there is not much info about the server revealed. It is known that the upcoming expansion Battle for Azeroth pre-order has been available at blizzard shop, and the system requirements of Mac and Windows has been unveiled Recently, Forbes has an interview with J. Allen Brack and Jeremy Feasel about the project and some of the vision that developers have.


This is definitely why we do a beta test. We can also do things like reset the realm at a busy time like 4:30pm PDT to try and find the source of a certain issue where a crocolisk is losing it’s brain due to how multiple processes are interacting and mirroring code to form a cohesive world. There were similar types of issues like this back in 2004 but we wanted to try and resolve this one before the weekend for the folks who are testing.

When you decide to Buy World of Warcraft Classic Gold, the main factors you will consider are price, trust and speed. mmoko has many years of experience in the field of game goods sales, providing excellent pre-sales and after-sales services for more than 50,000 customers. Our customer service staff and game traders are online 24 hours a day. If you have any problems, please feel free to contact us. Our goal is to do our best to meet the needs of our customers.


I recreated my very first character -- a human warrior, because in the last-push alpha test I joined in 2004, there was no Horde -- and logged in. Immediately, I was surprised by how good the graphics actually looked, for being 15 year old textures-on-polygons. Warcraft's bright colors and cartoony aesthetic continue to this day, so all the increased resolution and better-contoured characters in Lordaeron don't really change the game's visual aesthetic.


Most people come here not to read walls of text, they look for the better-rated strategies that match their pet collections, copy&paste stuff they need to import into their addons and only come back if something goes horribly wrong and then mostly to find help in other peoples' comments who also struggled or to find a different team/strategy: I don't think many people wanna read about stuff that already happened to them, they mostly want to see solutions and it's the best way to have them in a well-optimized strategy&team already.
- Gold traders, both buyers and sellers are disliked everywhere, literary on every realm. But have no worries, we have developed very safe practices for trading the gold between ours and your accounts. If you require a specific way of delivery to you (AH, Face2Face, Mail, CoD) we can oblige to your request - just send us an e-mail right after your purchase (include your character name) and we will take care of the rest.

Below we list some of the Pros and Cons / Strength and Weakness of Leveling the Warrior Class in general. It’s worth noting that Warrior is one of the hardest Classes to Solo Level up in Classic WoW, you will want to find someone to level with. If you have a hard time finding some, try to Spec Protection and Tank Dungeons and other Farming areas with someone and share the XP with them.
In player vs. player designated zones, you will still be viewable and attackable by players, but you are not left completely defenseless. While engaged in a Pet Battle, any attack from another player will break you out of the battle. You will receive a 3 second damage shield that will absorb 50% of incoming attacks. The same exact wild pet that you were previously battling will respawn after you come out of combat with the other player. However, if you defeated the primary pet in battle prior to leaving the match, the pet and its team will not respawn.
Below we list some of the Pros and Cons / Strength and Weakness of Leveling the Warrior Class in general. It’s worth noting that Warrior is one of the hardest Classes to Solo Level up in Classic WoW, you will want to find someone to level with. If you have a hard time finding some, try to Spec Protection and Tank Dungeons and other Farming areas with someone and share the XP with them.
When hovering over an ability, the tooltip will tell you whether or not that attack is weak or strong against certain pet types. Additionally, you can hover over the opposing team's pets and view their attacks during combat. This will be important since it’s a good idea to pit a pet that's strong against the opponent's pet who's vulnerable to that type.
Classic WoW is the highly anticipated, upcoming (re) release of the original, first World of Warcraft version, known as Classic and by it's other popular ice-cream like name: Vanilla WoW. Dubbed Retail Classic, or Official Classic by the playerbase - it was finally announced by Blizzard in November 2017, after a lot of pressure from the Private Server World of Warcraft community, since the latter's shutdown of the most popular Private Server called Nostalrius which featured the first WoW version in two separate PvP and PvE servers.
This is the most advanced tip that will only suit the smart players – those willing to spend some time in the auction house. In order to start with the speculations, you’ll need some initial funds and some basic knowledge about the prices on your server, so this tip might not be suitable for many. Back in the day, in order to sell stuff quickly, people used to sell various stuff cheaper than the average price standard on the market and your job is to find those deals and quickly buy them out before anyone else does. This is where the real gold making comes from! 

It was the experience of the game that brought pleasure and joy, and that's what a lot of us want again. Not the numbers. When I play Classic I want to go through the deadmines with people I like and overcome a challenge together and see myself become stronger as a result. I don't want to play Classic so I can say "booyah! That number is exactly the same as it was 13 years ago!"
My main plan will be to focus on raw gold in the beginning. Then I will spend my gold on leveling tailoring and enchanting so I can shuffle enchanting materials which is likely to be very profitable. I already have some shuffle ideas, and I will look for more. Then I’ll work on obtaining the rare enchanting and tailoring recipes to craft those for gold. 
The main topic for Classic at the moment would be whether the game is actually harder or just has more redundant activities you have to do before doing the stuff that's really fun. This is actually a good discussion to have, and not just for WoW, but gaming in general. The main sticking point for now, as most people are on (relatively) low levels is the breaks between killing mobs, especially for mana users. In the beginning it's actually refreshing having to think about what you can and can't pull, not just running into a bunch of mobs and killing them in *insert current optimal time to kill Blizzard determined is the most fun*. The food/drink breaks after a few (or even one) mobs provide time to actually look around the scenery and the mobs you're facing, and while there isn't much strategy involved at these levels, you still at least pretend to plan out how you're going to get to that quest mob without being killed by the 4 random ones surrounding them. Not being able to pull whatever mob you want, and actually having to check what mobs are there when you don't have interrupts yet (casters tend to be a nightmare) is definitely more difficult in a real way than what we have today. As a caster, having to actually think about which spells to use based on mana cost (and perhaps even using lower ranked ones) is definitely more difficult and requires more engagement with your character than we have in modern WoW.
For the duration of the fight, creatures in the immediate area will not be visible to you (but they may still attack you if they wander too close). Keep in mind that other players will still be able to see you and attack you if you are eligible for player vs. player (PVP). Other players will also be able to view your pet battle in real time, including the pets involved as well as their health as the match progresses.
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To celebrate World of Warcraft’s 15th anniversary, Blizzard is planning to release an authentic recreation of its early days with WoW Classic. Players will be able to explore Azeroth as it originally was before the release of WoW’s many expansion sets. Initially it’ll feature encounters like Molten Core, Onyxia and Maraudon at launch and will see more content rolled out as the game goes on (such as Alterac Valley, the Ahn’Qiraj War Effort and Naxxramas). It’s not just the world that’s reverting to its classic form either – the combat mechanics, skill trees and character models will be as they were in the original too.
Kaivax, a WoW forum community manager, revealed that WoW Classic's class design, battleground mechanics and stats on existing items will be set to their 1.12 state, despite the game releasing content that expands beyond that. This removes "progressive itemization," so if the stats on a specific piece of equipment was changed during the original updates, that won't take effect in this version. 

Much like an encounter with a wild pet team, PVP Pet Battles are turn-based. However, unlike the PVE version, the PVP combat system is timed and any ability for each round must be chosen within that time limit otherwise it will assume you have passed a turn. A time penalty is applied if you take more than 15 seconds to choose an action, resulting in progressively shorter round timers for you.
2. Achieving. There are many pet battling achievements in game, and following the natural trail through the Taming [Continent] achievements up to Pandaria, and then on to the Spirit Tamers, Beasts of Fable and the Celestial Tournament was an epic journey for me and for many others. It's well worth doing. The Celestial Tournament is still, IMO, the pinnacle of PvE pet battling. However, WoD and Legion and BfA have added more battling achievements.
To me, certain character limits tend to be problematic not because of the length of actual content, but because of formatting tags and embedding taking up a lot of characters. This is something I experience on most of websites, not just this one, but the most aggravating issue over here is linking to user profiiles and other sources of strategies, which could be alleviated with internalisation of link paths and @mentions.
Within the context of Classic, the method most frequently proposed is to re-tune bosses to make them harder. Rather than copying the numbers, re-create the relative difficulty. Kind of like, when you first start working out, you use small weights. When you get stronger, you lift bigger weights. The WoW community is more knowledgeable, more experienced, has better hardware, etc. We're "stronger." So give us tougher bosses. There are a lot of forms that could take. Bosses were constantly re-tuned during vanilla anyway, so if Ragnaros does 10% more damage or something, is that really a problem? I don't think it is. What about resistance gear? back in the day, collecting resist gear was a thing people did. But the numbers and strategies are so well known today that only the tank really needs it anymore. Bosses could be re-tuned with more resistible elemental damage so that's important for entire raids to gear appropriately. That would be entirely keeping with the spirit of vanilla even if the actually numbers sitting in a database somewhere were different than they were ~13 years ago. If you want to go a little farther, a few people have proposed adding new abilities to old bosses, adjusting their timing, etc.

Nov 5 Yellow names I got killed by an undead character with a yellow name. I know some npcs are green and players on your side are blue. Is this an enemy player or an npc? I thought the undead and blood elves were on the same side but I think it might have been a player because he/she jumped over and over again on my corpse after I was dead. I'm really confused by this.Lithelilara12 Nov 5
This is definitely why we do a beta test. We can also do things like reset the realm at a busy time like 4:30pm PDT to try and find the source of a certain issue where a crocolisk is losing it’s brain due to how multiple processes are interacting and mirroring code to form a cohesive world. There were similar types of issues like this back in 2004 but we wanted to try and resolve this one before the weekend for the folks who are testing.
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